Landships II

Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Post Info TOPIC: A7V camouflage scheme of 501 Gretchen and 528 Hagen
LM


Private

Status: Offline
Posts: 3
Date:
A7V camouflage scheme of 501 Gretchen and 528 Hagen
Permalink   


Hello,

does anyone know what scheme and colours the above two A7V were painted in?

I have seen a few illustrations and models online where 501 Gretchen is depicted in green with the lower part near the suspension in orange/amber, whereas 528 Hagen is depicted in cream, yellow and orange colours. I attached them below.

From what I have read, Gretchen was originally single colour and later in Buntfarbenanstrich and Hagen seems really odd to me in these light colours. Are these accurate in any way?

And can anyone tell me how these two are illustrated in Hundleby's and Strasheim's "The German A7V Tank" from 1990?

 

Thanks, Lukas



Attachments
__________________


Commander in Chief

Status: Offline
Posts: 620
Date:
Permalink   

I think nobody alive today can really know it. Those who knew are long dead (and their recollections in old age often were kind of cranky). So, we're down to best guessing.

501: the scheme is based on two photographs showing 501 and 506 at the Monceau-sur-Sambre workshop after the mission on 21st March, 1918. There is a dark lower fringe on 501 which well may be a reddish tone (as red shows as black in monocrome pictures). With maintenance and repair, however, 501 also received a new coat of paint which it displayed in the next mission on April 24th, 1918.

528: these strange colours may be based on the painting discussed in the thread "Painting of 504 'Schnuck' or 528 'Hagen'?" below. This painting may well depict one of the two in captivity. A vehicle covered in dirt and summer dust may well look like that. But the camouflage scheme applied ought to have been a regular BAKP 20 mix of green, red-brown and clay-yellow - only obscured by dust now. Photographs of 528 after capture clearly show light (clay-yellow) and dark (red-brown) blotches over a medium (green?) primary colour.  

 



__________________
MZ
LM


Private

Status: Offline
Posts: 3
Date:
Permalink   

Thanks, this is very helpful.

I've looked at the photos and painting you mentioned again and will go with what you said; 501 as depicted with a darker lower fringe and 528 in B.A.K.P. 20 style camouflage.



__________________


Sergeant

Status: Offline
Posts: 40
Date:
Permalink   

Hello!
I´ve got a model of Hagen, scale 1/35. I bought it "finished". I didn´t paint it, but I think, it´s a good work, but I don´t know, if it´s historical correctly.

IMG_20210529_142407.jpg



-- Edited by Ruhrpottpreusse on Saturday 26th of June 2021 04:02:31 AM

Attachments
__________________

Best regards, Andy

https://www.feldgrau-forum.com/forums/



Lieutenant

Status: Offline
Posts: 53
Date:
Permalink   

I like the way the model camo is blended together.

Tony



__________________


Sergeant

Status: Offline
Posts: 40
Date:
Permalink   

Yes. Later, when the different colours had to be separated by black lines, Hagen already was in Kiwi-hands

Here is his history (translated by internet-translator because of beeing lazy...)

Originally, the armoured personnel carriers were delivered in field grey. They had an iron cross on all sides. Except for the cars of Dept. I, they had a skull and crossbones on the front instead of the cross.
Already during the first missions the crews applied a camouflage paint on their own. This happened more often during the war, so that the painting could also differ.
Most of the cars had a camouflage painting already in June 1918.
Also in June, two iron crosses were attached to the two sides. In the middle of these crosses there was then a white circle, in the middle of which the numbers 1-5 were painted, according to the internal departmental count. However, this did not prove successful and so from July onwards Roman, red numbers were taken.
From about August, an order was issued regarding the painting. Since then, the different colours were to be outlined in black so that the colours would not blend into each other. This measure was to be completed by September. Also starting in September, the curved iron crosses were replaced by straight ones.
In terms of armament, the A7V had six MG 08 (Car 501 had four MG and two flamethrowers by September). In addition, there were six K98s in each car, plus each crew member had a pistol. Per A7V, 16,000 S cartridges were provided, as well as 12,000 SmK cartridges. In the carriage itself, there were 10-15,000 rounds in use for the MG.
The main armament was a Belgian 5.7cm gun with a cadence of 20-25 rounds/min. Originally, 100 shells with armoured head and 400 shells with impact fuse (each with increased charge) were to be carried. As a rule, the following were carried: 55% grenades with impact fuse, 25% grenades with impact fuse with delay, 10% grenades with tank head and 10% cartridges.
Hagen was an armoured fighting vehicle of the second construction group and was under the command of Abt.II.
It was handed over to the troops in early May 1918, having arrived at Monceau-sur-Sambre in late April. The kit thus shows it with the paint scheme before its last deployment at Frémicourt (see below).
In Dept. II it was given the internal number IV and replaced 543 "Bulle".
At the end of May it was transported by rail to an area north of Reims. There he took part in the battle at Pierquin-Ferme on 31.5. There he and 525, as well as 529 were ambushed, but escaped unharmed.
On 15.7. he did not take part in the battle at Forêt de Montagne near Reims.
The next engagement, which was to be his last, took place on 31.8. near Frémicourt. There it went rather badly for him...
By the way, the commander was Leutnant v. Jamrowski.
The Abt.II consisted of only four A7V.
Car 1 (504 Schnuck)
Car 2 (525 Siegfried)
Car 3 (563 Wotan)
Car 4 (528 Hagen)
Car 5 was previously damaged by air raid.
Abt.II moved out of Bourlon Forest on 30.8. at half past nine in the evening. During the march Siegfried dropped out with transmission damage. At Beugny Wotan dropped out because of a broken fan belt. However, he was able to drive back to Doignies on his own.
Schnuck and Hagen remained. These two put themselves at the head of some shock troops of the Bavarian. 16.Inf.Div. to which the division was assigned for this attack. The combat zone was between Frémicourt and Bancourt. There some MG nests were silenced.
Then came the march back...
The two were fired on by own artillery and MG. Schnuck got five "friendly" hits and stayed down. Hagen got stuck and was destroyed by enemy artillery after being abandoned by the crew. I know nothing about personnel losses from Hagen.
On 3.9. Hagen was taken possession of by New Zealanders and later exhibited at the Horse Guard Parade in London in late 1918, early 1919, later probably shipped to Edinburgh for further exhibitions and then probably scrapped sometime in 1919.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

IMG_20210529_142358.jpgIMG_20210602_195830.jpg



-- Edited by Ruhrpottpreusse on Saturday 26th of June 2021 03:57:54 AM



-- Edited by Ruhrpottpreusse on Saturday 26th of June 2021 04:01:37 AM

Attachments
__________________

Best regards, Andy

https://www.feldgrau-forum.com/forums/

Page 1 of 1  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.

Tweet this page Post to Digg Post to Del.icio.us


Create your own FREE Forum
Report Abuse
Powered by ActiveBoard