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Landships II -> Landships WW1 Forum -> References -> "Bullock-Lombard" and "Allis-Chalmers". Help
Post Info TOPIC: "Bullock-Lombard" and "Allis-Chalmers". Help
vad26


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"Bullock-Lombard" and "Allis-Chalmers". Help
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Hello, colleagues! Can, at this forum somebody can help me. For a long time and unsuccessfully I search for drawings, schemes or figures on following artillery tractors: "Bullock-Lombard" and "Allis-Chalmers." (On the basis of these tractors during Civil war in Russia 1917-1920 unusual "tanks" which models very much I wish to make have been created). But except for several photos anything is not present. Thanks.

-- Edited by vad26 at 08:53, 2006-04-10

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Aleksandr


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RE: "Bullock-Lombard" and "Allis-Chalmers". Help
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Hello, Vadim!


I try to found this drawings too. This "tanks" are very interesting, I wish to make anything in 1:35. See my post from 20 March.


Если что найду - поделюсь. Удачи!



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Roger Todd


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This thread:


http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=63528&subForumID=169814&action=viewTopic&commentID=6263673


Damn nice drawing Aleksandr!



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vad26


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Спасибо, Александр! В том-то и дело, что все фото и единственный боковой чертёж - из одной  книги, ни одного габаритного размера! Неужели больше ничего нет? Текая загадочная техника? Тем не менее - спасибо, в свою очередь тоже не премину сообщить об удачных находках...
 
That's just the point, that all photo and the unique lateral drawing - from one book, any overall dimension! Really more anything is not present? Such mysterious technics?
 
 

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Stoyan


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vad26, такой химеры как "Bullock-Lombard" вообще не существовало, это домыслы авторов этих публикаций. Танк "судосталь" это просто ломбард.
Возможно были танки "судостали" на шасси трактора Bullock или Linn.
А вообще Вы долго будете искать :) Вся информация у западных коллег от наших публикаций включая и характерные ошибки авторов. Живете в москве?

Возможно я буду публиковать статью по ломбарту с чертежами если найду куда пристроить - тогда увидите.

Чертеж боковика А-Ч от М.Коломийца выполнен по тем же фотографиям так что не нужно на него ориентироваться.

по поводу элис-чалмерса есть одна книжка где могут быть ТТД трактора, но увы нам она недоступна. а покупать весь том ради одной страницы это расточительно. Мне интересно было бы взглянуть поскольку не имею вопросов по ходовой трактора но есть интерес к его размерам.


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vad26


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RE: "Bullock-Lombard" and "Allis-Chalmers". Help
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Правильное или нет название "Буллок-Ломбард" - често скажу, не знаю. Оно присутствует на нескольких фото трактора и фото "судостали" - последняя в их ряду. ( В первый и последний раз этот трактор (не "судосталь") я увидел в "Танках гражданской войны". Но там говорится, что эти трактора были достаточно широко распространены на западном фронте как артиллерийские тягачи. Что не укладывается с тем, что инфы по ним никакой нет (!?). Есть ещё упоминания и фото тракторов Холта, Рустон, Клейтон. И та же ситуация... Прям, колдовство какое-то!
 
С нетерпением буду ожидать Ваш материал...
 
P.S. "Живете в москве?" - Не, мы - Севастополь! 



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Centurion


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I don't want to seem picky put it would be nice if us non cyrilic types could be includeed in the conversation - this is a forum after all!

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Aleksandr


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Hello? Stoyan!


Sudostal, or Revelskiy plant - now "Krasnyy Dvigatel" at Novorossiysk, but my friend from this town said me, that no any old documents here.


Were are you from? You can reply me for artsheval@yandex.ru


And one more troactor.



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armortractor.jpg (110.7 kb)
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Roger Todd


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Hell's bells, what's it armed with?!?!


Brilliant picture, thanks for posting it! What is the tractor?



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Stoyan


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Lombardt

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vad26


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Never would think, that this tractor can sustain such gun!
 
Centurion
I am sorry

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Tim R


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Hello Guys


Sorry these tractors are actually Clayton tractors, armored with a naval 120mm gun, They were designed and built in Taganrog in 1919 and used by The Independent Marine Corps.


I have only seen a few photos of this particular Clayton, most were armed with rear mounted machine guns as were a few Lombards. Also a Armored Clayton was built, it was named the Colonel Bezmolitvan, it was not well received.


All the Best


Tim R



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Roger Todd


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As usual, Tim, more nuggets of information!


Is the following picture from the armor-kiev site the armoured Clayton you mention?




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Tim R


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Thats it.


All the best


Tim R



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Stoyan


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Tim, I am disappointed. :(
You not the real general :)

In a picture from Aleksandr not CLAYTON and not naval 120mm gun

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Centurion


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Stoyan wrote:

Tim, I am disappointed. :( You not the real general :) In a picture from Aleksandr not CLAYTON and not naval 120mm gun
Ok so tell us - what is the tractor and what is the gun?

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Tim R


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Well Stoyan sorry to disappoint, but my Russian sources state different, and I have been studying these machines for a long time, with connections to Russian friends who have been doing this as well. If I am wrong then please prove it, I am not always right, and I can most definitely own up to being wrong if that’s the case.  (LOOK AT THE NEXT POST AS WELL)


All the Best Tim R



-- Edited by Tim R at 18:51, 2006-04-23

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Tim R


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Actually, after really looking and studying  the picture Alexsandr provided, it does not seem like the vehicle is either Lombard or Clayton. I can not distinguish any tracks on the photo provided. So by all means if you know what it is, Please tell us. Lombard I don’t think so. But even if it is not the Clayton, they were converted and did carry 120mm Naval guns and this photo is very similar to ones I have seen. Except the obvious thing, I see no tracks?? Or Am I blind!!!!!!!! Show me If I Am.


All the Best


Tim R





-- Edited by Tim R at 18:53, 2006-04-23



-- Edited by Tim R at 20:28, 2006-04-23

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armortractor.jpg (84.6 kb)
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eugene


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RE: "Bullock-Lombard" and "Allis-Chalmers". Help
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Hi Tim

There appears to be small wheels instead of tracks in the areas you circled, but hte photo is grainy it might be a small set of tracks

the back of the vehicle definatly has wooden wheels



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Centurion


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Tim


Looking very hard it is possible to make out a short track unit in the area you have circled in white it appears to be in OooO configuration. I think I can see a wheel or roller in the second circled area. The larger spoked wheel further along could be made of anything (wood or steel) and might even be part of a seperate limber unit



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Roger Todd


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I reckon you're right - I think it's just possible to make out a small wheel to the right of the right leg of the bearded chap in the white tunic, circled, directly above the '???' in 'NO TRACK???'; maybe even a larger wheel behind the chaps behind Tim's white question mark, which would tie in with your OooO configuration. The spoked wheel on the extreme right I suspect is a frontal steering wheel a la Holt and Allis-Chalmers.

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Tim R


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Hello Guys


 


  Well I guess I am blind, and wrong.  I did some studying last night, on the photo, and other photo’s I have of the machine gun version Lombard’s. The track is pushed back further, than the weapon cab, which is the same cab as on the Lombard machine gun tractor. So I WAS WRONG!!!!! SORRY I AM NOT PERFECT.


I will try and post some photo’s later.


All the Best


Tim R



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Stoyan


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OK, a tractor nevertheless LOMBARD

And a gun? :)

There will be objections if I shall tell that it - 127-mm Vickers?

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Roger Todd


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Ah, do you mean the 60-pounder? I have to say that when I first saw it, it did remind me strongly of one.

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Aleksandr


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I found this photo in the book of lieutenant Kadesnikov "Brief sketch of white struggle under the andreevskiy (St Andrew) flag". It is entitled "The Independent Marine Corps... Group on a background of one tank constructed in Taganrog and armed with sea heavy artillery..." No any information about tipe of tractor used. Man with berad at center - general Denikin.

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