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Post Info TOPIC: Rolls Royce Armoured Car
MarkV


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Rolls Royce Armoured Car
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Hello,

I am starting on a 1/6 scale scratch-built replica of the British Rolls Royce armo(u)red car and am looking for plans. I have the "Fine Scale Modeler" magazine plans (Sept 1989) but it appears that these were not reproduced to 1/24 scale as was indicated on the plans. They seem to be about 6% smaller than 1/24. I know I could just scale them up on a copier but I'd like to find some exact dimensions of the real armored cars so that I can do this accurately and also check the accuracy of these plans.

To complicate things a bit, it appears that the 1914, 1920, 1924, and 1930's Fordson based models of the car were slightly different sizes in their over-all dimensions. I think that the basic bodies were the same but that they were fitted to different chassis and with different accesssories which altered the over-all dimensions somewhat. Most sources that give over-all dimensions fail to indicate which model the dimensions are from and, even when they do, it is unclear where the measurments are being taken. The car's width, for example, could vary depending on if the spare tires mounted on the sides were included (and what size the tires were at the time), or the length could vary depending on if the taillight was included. The height could vary depending on the tire size and if the searchlight mount on the turret was included. I'm left with no precisely defined dimensions to which to scale.

What I am looking for are new or historic plans to a definite scale OR at least a few actual dimensions taken from a real Rolls Royce AC that I can use to confirm the accuracy of the Fine Scale Modeler plans that I have.

Can anyone help or point me to someone who can?

Thanks,

Mark


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Phil R


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Mark


how close are you to Bovington Tank mUseum? because they have a 1920 pattern survivor that you could measure yourself.


the cars must have varied slightly from car to car, even within one pattern (say the 1914 pattern for example). and as you say, the crews and field modifications would change, for example, the total width etc. if you have a few sets of measurements and plenty of photographs (there are plenty in one of my photo albums that everyone is welcome to see), could you just simply take an average of those and work to those sizes? it would surely be extremely close, and who could say that it wasn't an accurate scale representation?



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Neal


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Mark,


If you E-Mail me off-line I have access to two sets of measurements taken off of the 1920 Pattern at The Tank Museum, one taken by myself last year.  I will be sailing for the next week, so the response might take a while.  The 1920 and 1924 Pattern chassis and armoured body is basically consistent, though very different from each other, since they used a specified chassis from Rolls-Royce and only one builder/erector of the armoured body on the chassis.  There are nurmerous versions of the 1914 Pattern due to the number of builders of the armoured car.  Remember, Rolls-Royce just supplied the chassis for all versions.


Neal


nsgunderson1@aol.com



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Neal
Mario Wens


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Mark,


I can't help with measurements, but I made a load of pictures of the Bovington vehicle in 1990 and 1991, including the interior, for which we had special permission.


Mario



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MarkV


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Hello again,

Unfortunately I am nowhere near Bovington, I live in Texas! I did visit their website only to learn that the Rolls Royce AC is not on their list of vehicles for which they have plan sets availible to the public.

I did not realize that these cars were originally made by different builders/erectors. I had heard, though, that at least some of the Fordson chassis cars that saw service in WWII had been converted in Egypt and that there were considerable variations as result. By the way, does anyone know which Fordson chassis was used? My cousin owns a 1930 Model AA and there is also an ancient truck graveyard not too far away where I might be able to obtain measurements of the chassis if I could pin down the specific type(s) and years model(s) used.

Mario, I would very much like to obtain copies of the photos that you took of the Bovington Rolls Royce AC. My personal email is mdc22003 at yahoo.com (just replace the " at " with @).

I'd welcome additional photos, plans, or information from anyone, but please -no junk email!

Thanks!

Mark

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Mario Wens


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Mark,


I'll get back on those photo's after the weekend. Will check for you how many there are. I seem to remember that when we came in Bovington again in 1991, the RR was under repair and I took pictures of it partly dismantled, but my memory might be playing tricks with me there. Haven't looked at them for quite a while, actually!


Mario



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MarkV


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Hello again and thank you all for your help.

In searching the net I've found that surviving original plans or manuals related to these vehicles are virtually nonexistant. I've been looking into the RAF Museum's online catalog and fortunately have come across two period documents regarding the Rolls Royce ACs. The first is entitled "Royal Air Force Armoured Car Manual" (Sept 1931) and the second is the "Priced List of Spare Parts for Rolls Royce Armoured Car Chassis" (Feb 1928). They are both located at Henden.

Does anyone out there know if either of these documents are illustrated with plans or photographs? (If so I'd like to obtain copies.) Has anyone here tried to contact the museum for copies? What were your experiences / any advice?

Mark

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MarkV


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Phil,

What is the web address of your photo album with the Rolls Royce photos? I can't seem to find it.

Thanks!

Mark

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MarkV


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Hello all,

Apparently the original plans for the 1914 Rolls Royce armoured cars have gone missing and, as I mentioned previously, manuals that might contain scale drawings for these vehicles are extremely scarce.

In searching through archives catalogs available on the net I've come across the Royal Gloucestershire Hussars' records held at the Gloucestershire Archives (http://www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=1348). Their online military records finding aid includes this intriguing listing: "1920, Plans and drawings of Rolls Royce armoured car, D4920/2/3/1"

I've emailed them inquiring about the possibility of obtaining a copy of these documents but received an automated response stating that they are very busy and will try to get back to me in about a month.

Is there anyone here who has seen these plans or is from the Gloucester area and could take a look at them and see if they are worth the effort it would take to acquire them?

Thanks,

Mark

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Centurion


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Military Modelling March 1972 has a 4 view scale drawing. The Airfix book Modelling Armoured Cars has a 3 view drawing but its a bit small

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Nailcreek


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While the link doesn't have any plans ... there are a few photos of RR and Fordson ACs used by the RAF.


http://groups.msn.com/RAFArmdCarCompanies


I do know that Bovington does have a set of handbook drawings that you could use to scale up.  If you can find the Bellona print, it does have 1/48th scale drawings.  AFV News has some drawings as well.


Regarding the Fordson AC ... I drew the plans in MAFVA Tankette about 10 yrs ago.  The chassis was a 1940 Ford 1 1/2 ton chassis, V-8, lefthand drive and 158" wheelbase, single rear wheel.


Hope that helps.


 



-- Edited by Nailcreek at 02:30, 2006-08-11

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MarkV


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Thanks for the link. That's a great collection of photos you've got there.

According to this website Ford apparantly used the same basic chassis for its 1940 1.5 ton truck from 1940-1947: Ford Flathead Powered Trucks

Unfortunately this website doesn't have a scale-able drawing of the 1940 chassis. Was this the only Ford chassis used? Given the war situation I'm surprised they could obtain a sufficent number of them in Egypt in 1940.

I checked the MAFVA website and they don't have any more copies of the back issue with your plans. Could I get a copy of the plans from you?

Does anyone know if they were new manufactured "Lend-Lease" vehicles from the USA or were they European manufacture?

Given its fascinating history and the Rolls Royce / Lawrence of Arabia mystique, someone should write a book on this long-serving armoured car.

Thanks,

Mark


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Nailcreek


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Unfortunately, I don't have the plans scanned.  If you'd like a hard copy mailed, email me offline at nailcreek@hotbytmemail.com  Remove the byte me :)


The chassis were US made, and only about 40 of them were made.  The RAF did try a Chevy chassis with a transverse front spring, but they switched to Fords because of the longer wheelbase.


 



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