Landships II

huhncc · Major

Peerless AC 17th Battalion, Tank Corps

Tim R · Hero

Hello Chris

As you know there were quite a few different Austin AC's used during the war, I have attached a comparison drawing to show you the 1st, 2nd and 3rd series, as well as the White, Putilov and Kegresse versions. The Peerless AC was of course not used in WW1 as per say in France. It took part in the fighting in Ireland.

As far as I know, and I may be wrong, the 17th Battalion used the 3rd series Austins, possibly the 2nd series as well?? The best information on this would be found in Mr. David Fletchers "WAR CARS"

If you are looking for photos of the Peerles in action, I can supply some for you, if you would like.

All the best

Tim R

Rhomboid · Field Marshal

The war diary of the 17th Bn. is available for purchase from the Tank Museum. David Fletcher's "Tanks and Trenches" contains a number of accounts of the battalion's actions including Framerville on Aug. 8, 1918, Bucquoy on Aug. 21, Maretz on Oct. 9, and Avesnes on Nov. 9. - send me an e-mail if these excerpts would be of use to you.

huhncc · Major

Thanks Tim - that image makes it much clearer for me. I guess I got confused on with all the names given to Austin ACs.

Centurion · Legend

You might find the following account of an action by the 17th Battalion of interest.

"The 17th Battalion of armoured cars worked with the cavalry corps on October 8th , but moved out ahead of it on the 9th to Maretz and beyond. These cars assisted the South African infantry on this date. By running through the German line and delivering enfilade fire upon it they forced the machine gun crews to leave their positions. The cars killed many of the gunners and captured ten machine guns and two trench mortars. Two cars moved up the Maretz-Honnechy road in an effort to secure a railway bridge. They were observed by the Germans who lit a demolition fuse and then retreated. The first car got across before the bomb exploded, but the second could not cross. Approaching the village of Honnechy the car that had crossed passed a building as a group of Germans were leaving it. A short burst was fired into them and five dropped.. The car went through Honnechy, which was full of German troops, using its guns effectively and on to Maurois where the procedure was repeated causing many casualties. Knowing of another bridge by which they could get back to the other side of the river, the crew appr0ached the bridge with the guns pointing to the probable location of the demolition crew. These men were fired upon before they could light the charge. The bridge was saved and proved of value later."

Centurion · Legend

More on this - it seems that the 17th were the very last British armoured unit in action in WW1

"The armoured cars continued (on Nov 5th) in pursuit of the retreating German troops. At different points they overtook the troops and worked their way past whole trains of ammunition , guns, trucks, etc being withdrawn by the Germans. These cars were near the Belgian line, twelve miles ahead of the nearest British troops, on November 11th when they were overtaken by a messenger with the news of the armistice."

What was the messenger using for transport one wonders

huhncc · Major

This is great stuff!

Thanks guys!

Great War Truck · Brigadier

This is very interesting, but can anybody help with more info. Does anybody know where i might find plans of the Austin armoured car body that was fitted on to the Peerless?

Many thanks

Tim

philthydirtyanimal · Commander in Chief

Tim,

as I understand it (and at the risk of being corrected) the Peerless armoured cars (used extensively in Ireland) used a Peerless chassis with the armoured body made for the Austin. The body type was the last version, and is�variously referred to as '3rd series' or '1918 type'.

However David Fletcher, in War Cars, doesnt agree (not entirely, anyway), he states the armoured bodies were 'almost identical' (p85). How much is 'almost'? Well, that's anyone's guess. If you are so inclined, you could measure the one in the Tank Museum.

If we assume that the bodies were the same (or almost identical) then the only plans I have seen are the ones (the other) Tim posted. They are repeated here

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7700258@N05/2091896424/in/set-72157601073012094/

In the photo on the WarWheels site, linked to in Chris's (huhncc) first post in this thread, you can see that the body type does look like the 3rd series in the plan.

and just for fun, here's a vid of Austins, including the Peerless Austin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grXrWlrdF2c

hope this is of some help

-- Edited by philthydirtyanimal at 18:20, 2008-03-06

-- Edited by philthydirtyanimal at 18:25, 2008-03-06

-- Edited by philthydirtyanimal at 18:29, 2008-03-06

Great War Truck · Brigadier

Thanks for that. I have become involved in an interesting project and would benefit from finding the original plans. Was the armoured body actually made by Austin? I am wondering if so whether it might have ended up at Gaydon with the other Austin archive material. Anybody been there?

Thanks

Tim

philthydirtyanimal · Commander in Chief

Tim

You may be able to get plans from The Tank Museum. If not, you may be able to get permission to measure everything when you visit.
�
I am 99% certain that the armour was not made by Austin. It may have been attached to the chassis in the Austin plant (but I doubt that). I am tempted to say it was made by Beardmore; but I can't find a reference to back that up, so its just a guess at the moment.

I am tempted to also say that armoured bodies and chassis were united at the Daily Mail Airship sheds (actually, beside the sheds) at Wormwood Scrubs; but again, no reference. The sheds were where the Royal Navy did preparation, maintennance and repair on armoured cars, but by the time of the Peerless Austin, the armoured cars had been given to the Army (with some exceptions such as the Czars Squadron) so I am less confident with this assumption.

Hopefully somebody else can add to this or correct it, because it sounds as though you have an interesting project.

Great War Truck · Brigadier

Thanks for that. Sadly the plans are not at Bovington, but as you say they have a very good example to copy. The project i am referring to does not have the firm go ahead yet, but i will update you if it does.

Interestingly, i noticed that the "Peerless" name badge on the chassis (under the bonnet armour)�was replaced with one of the same size with the name of the importers "Gaston, Williams and Wigmore". I have found two more photos of this badge, one on a British bodied Peerless in service with the AEF in France and another on a post war, Royal Armoured Corps Peerless in Eygypt.
�
I know very little about the importers, but i do find it strange that they put their names on the chassis and took off the Peerless name. Most Peerless photos i have seen have the name Peerless on it. Any thoughts on why and when they might have done this?

Thanks

Tim�