Landships II

Centurion · Legend

Mk I or II?

Mark Hansen · Legend

That's 777 "Charlie Chaplin". I think what gives the rounded appearance is the mud/dark stain at the rear of the track adjuster and the reproduction quality of the photo, which also distorts the WD number somewhat. IIRC this photo also appears in "Tanks and Trenches".

P.S.: Naturally, as soon as I post I see why the track adjuster looks rounded. It's not mud but the screw itself. The bottom edge of the aperture is well lit and blends in with the side of the tank creating the illusion of a round edge. You can just make out where the name of the tank is as well but at this quality it isn't legible

-- Edited by Mark Hansen at 00:05, 2006-10-01

Peter Kempf · Field Marshal

Yep, that's "Charlie Chaplin"!

Mark Hansen · Legend

Wish I could find my copy of "Tanks and Trenches". I'm sure that the soldier looking towards the photographer is giving him a real evil "You can take that camera and shove it" stare.

Rhomboid · Field Marshal

The colonel certainly doesn't look too pleased by what he is reading! In partial answer to Centurion's question, supposedly 16 Mk.I's were available for the Arras offensive. According to David Fletcher, tank 752 (C.6, 7 Co.) is the only Mk.I photographed at Arras, in the famous photo showing it ditched bow upwards by the Athies road. D Battalion's war diary mentions the following Mk.I's in service during April/May 1917: 10 Co. - 505, 522, 524 and 565; 11 Co. - 531, 554, 702, 711 and 770. Tank 712 has been photographed after conversion to a supply tank. The AWM has a photo of a sponson-less 515 captioned 1917.

Mark Hansen · Legend

There are also two photos of 746 after conversion to a supply tank. The photos in the AWM website are Nos. E01418 and E01419.

Centurion · Legend

Rhomboid wrote:

The colonel certainly doesn't look too pleased by what he is reading! In partial answer to Centurion's question, supposedly 16 Mk.I's were available for the Arras offensive. According to David Fletcher, tank 752 (C.6, 7 Co.) is the only Mk.I photographed at Arras, in the famous photo showing it ditched bow upwards by the Athies road. D Battalion's war diary mentions the following Mk.I's in service during April/May 1917: 10 Co. - 505, 522, 524 and 565; 11 Co. - 531, 554, 702, 711 and 770. Tank 712 has been photographed after conversion to a supply tank. The AWM has a photo of a sponson-less 515 captioned 1917.

I enclose what is a second Mk I at Arras. The rivet pattern on the cab and the mg app both id it as a Mk I. It has the spuds fitted for Arras. The Deutches Museum ids it as taken in 1917 which also puts it as knocked out at Arras.

I also enclose what I suspect is the AWM photo of 515. This shows the tank being dismantled - you will note that the engine has already been removed.

Mark Hansen · Legend

The first image is a retouched photo of a Mk II WD 799. I have attached two more photos showing the same tank with the cab rivet detail a little more clearly and the track adjuster.

-- Edited by Mark Hansen at 21:55, 2006-10-02

Mark Hansen · Legend

Centurion wrote:

I also enclose what I suspect is the AWM photo of 515. This shows the tank being dismantled - you will note that the engine has already been removed.

That's the AWM photo all right (part of the logo is visible in the lower right edge) but I think the engine is still in place. I've pointed out the engine cover and one of the exhaust pipes.

Rhomboid · Field Marshal

I wonder if the AWM caption, which states that 515 is being examined by Canadian troops in France, is in error. The officer standing nearest to the photographer, is wearing a Tank Corps sleeve badge (which would, incidentally, date the photo to May 1917 or there after). The other soldiers appear to be wearing the overalls issued to tank crews.

Regarding 515's service career, she does not seem to have been used by C or D company at Flers-Courcellette, or by 10 or 11 Company at Arras (she may have seen action with C Battalion, though). The lack of a "Petrograd" inscription suggests that the tank has been over-painted in the monochrome brown scheme, which would tend to support the captioned location.