Landships II

Centurion · Legend

WWI one man tank reference

Vilkata · Brigadier

Mohave is in California.

Holt was stationed in Stockton California.

On April 18th, 1918, General Ernest Swinton visited Stockton California and met with Benjamin Holt, and a parade was set up in his honor. Holt 75's and the little H.A. 36 which was built expressly for the parade were in attendance.

I am guessing it is the H.A. 36 one-man "tank". I am guessing that while the "Mohave Museum of History and Arts" has the reference, the event did not take place in Mohave. A liberty bond drive in Mohave wouldn't turn up that much money...

Also, the H.A.36 had a simple hatch-top for ingress and egress - if someone were to stand or sit on top of it, there would be no way of opening it from the inside - seeming to illustrate what the author is speaking of.

However - could it have actually been armed with a .30 cal machine gun? Not likely I don't think. But I believe we can be fairly certain that the vehicle mentioned was the Holt H.A. 36 "Baby Tank".

I'm enclosing gigantic scans of my own personal June 1918 issue of Popular Mechanics, which while having the HA-36 as its cover piece, offers only a paragraph of actual article.

---Vil.

Post Script:
Now that I have posted a huge version of the cover of that magazine, notice the little box at top right - pretty neat!

Centurion · Legend

Funny because the web site refers to Mohave Arizona so don't be certain its the baby Holt

Roger Todd · Legend

Mohave (with an 'h') is in Arizona.

Mojave (with a 'j') is in California.

Centurion · Legend

Roger Todd wrote:

Mohave (with an 'h') is in Arizona. And a long way from the Holt factory

Mojave (with a 'j') is in California.

Vilkata · Brigadier

Hmmm. Well, theres only one thing to do. We'll have to send a letter to the Mohave County, Arizona, historical society, and ask if they have any pictures of a "one-man tank" that appeared in a parade in Kingman towards the end of WWI in a liberty bond drive.

Now... Chances are they won't have a single lead... But it's always worth a shot.

---Vil.

Centurion · Legend

The 'Andy' in the original piece was the young Andy Devine who became an actor who appeared in scores of films (usually westerns) and later TV series (usually westerns) playing alongside the likes of Richard Widmark, John Wayne, Garry Cooper etc etc mainly as the chief sidekick. In later years with extra girth he'd be the gabby stagecoach driver, deputy, town drunk, wise old uncle etc etc. In the television era appeared in things like Gunsmoke (" gee Marshal Dillon that man rode on a tank once"). I looked at a web site dedicated to his life but no photo of the tank ride (he'd have been about 13 at the time).

MarkV · Lieutenant-Colonel

Hello,

I've heard that there are some photos and information regarding the Holt HA 36 in the Holt Manufacturing Company archives at the Haggin Museum in Stockton, California.

Haggin Museum Link

Is anyone planning a trip to California? I'd certainly like to find out what they have...

Mark

Vilkata · Brigadier

The Holt Manufacturing Archives would also undoubtedly turn up a wealth of information on all the heaps of Holt prototype tanks of WWI.

Remember though folks, for some reason people always have trouble telling the difference between One Man Tanks, and Two Man Tanks. I have seen countless references to Japanese One-Man Tanks of WWII, which turned out to in fact be standard 2 man vehicles.

With that skepticism in mind...

DUSTY DOUGHBOYS ON THE LINCOLN HIGHWAY:
THE 1919 ARMY CONVOY IN IOWA
http://www.rootsweb.com/~iaclinto/places/linchwy.htm
" The trucks set out Monday morning for the final leg of the journey through Iowa. Logan residents treated the men to lemonade and cigars as the trucks stopped there. The account in this town’s newspaper specfically mentioned the one-man tank which the convoy carried on a trailer and occasionally demonstrated. Although un-armed, this unit gave many Iowans their first look at this type of military hardware. Eisenhower and his friend Sereno Brett demonstrated the tank and answered questions form the curious. Although Ike had commanded a tank training center during the war, he had no combat experience to relate at this stage of his career. However, his friend, Major Brett, could narrate experiences as a combat veteran and distinguished tank commander in France."

http://www.lincolnhighwayassoc.org/iowa/iowa/harrisonCo/logan.html
"When the army truck convoy reached Logan in early August 1919, the men were treated to cigars and gallons of cold lemonade. The Logan newspaper reporter was enthralled with the one-man tank which was carried on a trailer. because of this interest, Dwight Eisenhower and Serano Brett, the two tank men with the entourage, demonstrated the vehicle."

----

So... Dwight Eisenhower was driving around a one-man tank? Is that possible? The tank was transported on a trailer, as were M1917s I believe, so I am skeptical. I believe I have seen references to the FT-17/M1917 as a "One-Man Tank" before to boot.

What do you think ?

---Vil.

-- Edited by Vilkata at 00:46, 2006-10-07

Vilkata · Brigadier

Hello Centurion,

I emailed the Mohave County Historical Society, and they sent me a picture of the "One Man Tank" that was at Kingman for the Liberty Bond drive...
----
"I have attached a photo of the tank you inquired about.

Our records show it was part of the Liberty Bond Drive in 1918. Location is on Front Street in Kingman, Arizona.

Pat Foley
Mohave Museum
Photo Dept."
----

Just like I thought... Nearly every "one-man tank" reference out there is actually a case of mistaken identity involving two man tanks.

That is an M1917 correct? I still have trouble telling the difference between an FT-17 and M1917 on occasion. That is some very nicely done camouflage also.

---Vil.

Mark Hansen · Legend

Vilkata wrote:

That is an M1917 correct? I still have trouble telling the difference between an FT-17 and M1917 on occasion. That is some very nicely done camouflage also. ---Vil.

I think it is an M1917. It has a different layout of plates at the front just below the turret than an FT17.

Centurion · Legend

It�s a great photo but �

There is a discrepancy in timing. If the tank is at a Liberty Bond drive in 1918 it�s highly unlikely to be an M1917 as, despite the designation, production didn�t get started until well into 1918, the first being accepted from the production line in October 1918, and distribution to the army took place in 1919. If it were connected to �Ike�s� involvement in the Lincoln highway convoy in 1919 (which from the maps I can access did pass through Arizona) then an M1917 is appropriate. It�s possible that the local paper has conflated two events (in the UK there are numerous examples of �Tank Week� visits by a male Mk IV in 1918 , to sell the British equivalent of Liberty Bonds, being mixed up with the presentation to the town of a female Mk IV in 1919. If many local paper or town council archived reports and photos are to be believed there were scores of female Mk IVs all called Egbert!). One needs to remember that local press is not always 100% accurate (and neither are people�s memories � doing some rather different historical research years ago I remember talking to an old Welsh miner who gave me an vivid account of troops firing on strikers that he had witnessed in person � it subsequently turned out that he had been born a year after the event was said to have happened). If the tank is at the Liberty Bond rally (which would not be later than Oct 1918) it�s likely to be a FT17 but this doesn�t match Mark�s identification so, as I said, there is a discrepancy somewhere.

With regard to the Eisenhower �one man� reports I can offer a theory (or hypothesis). Looking at reports of the Lincoln highway convoy it appears that a tracked tractor was carried on one lorry in case any of the wheeled vehicles got stuck. One wonders if this might have been one of the 15 3ton tanks as acting as a tractor was one of the roles envisaged for it. In such a role it would possibly be driven as a one man vehicle but could also be used to give tank demonstrations. It would certainly be less of a problem to transport through what were in places still pretty rough roads than the 6 ton M1917. I�ve looked at a number of blurry photos of the convoy and can see nothing that resembles an M1917 on a lorry but there are lorries with sheeted loads that could contain a 3ton. Well its an idea.

It would be interesting to know if the convoy did pass by Kington. In such a case it�s just possible that there were two events � a Liberty bond rally in 1918 with a tank (FT17?) supplied by the nearby army base and a demo by �Ike� in 1919

Centurion · Legend

I've found more on the Lincoln Highway (including Eisenhowers own report). It seems that the tractor carried was the five ton (probably Holt) so my theory on the 3 ton tank goes up the chimney. However I can find no reference whatsover to a M1917 or an FT 17 being carried or of any tank demos and the convoy does not appear to have gone anywhere near Mohave so the tank refered to in the original quote was not from this source. (Bang goes another theory - I'm not doing too well an I?). However one thing stands out - the hard roads ran out in the mid west and many bridges had limited capacity so many heavy vehicles were left behind (including a boat on a trailer) so its possible that any tank on a trailer suffered the same fate.

Vilkata · Brigadier

I just recieved the book "At Ease: Stories I tell friends" by Dwight Eisenhower, and there is a chapter in it called "Through Darkest America with Truck and Tank". It is mostly about the clowning around Eisenhower and the convoy did from crossing from the East coast all the way to San Francisco. He does not get into any specifics as far as the details of the vehicles - but he does mention this:

"The trip would dramatise the need for better main highways. The use of Army vehicles of almost all types would offer an opportunity for comparitive tests. And many Americans would be able to see samples of equipment used in the war just concluded; even a small Renault tank was to be carried along."

So... That about sums it up. Whether it was an M1917 or an FT-17 is the only real mystery.

Later chapters of the book go into detail about Eisenhower and Patton investigating the use of tanks in combat, with both of them completely dismantling a Christie tank and rebuilding it the next day - they were proud there were no pieces left behind when they were done, and the thing still ran. Later he mentions excercises in using Mk.VIII tanks to pull up to three light "Renaults" up steep grades and across trenches they could not traverse on their own. On one occasion, one of the towing cables snapped, and shot across the ground like a razor, cutting even saplings in two, and came only 6 inches from slicing both Eisenhower and Patton in half. Being that Ike and Patton were both very big proponents of armor, there are quite a few interesting stories like that in this book - but again, he never goes into details. All stories are told like campfire stories with friends. Still a good read!

---Vil.

Centurion · Legend

Vilkata wrote:

"The trip would dramatise the need for better main highways. The use of Army vehicles of almost all types would offer an opportunity for comparitive tests. And many Americans would be able to see samples of equipment used in the war just concluded; even a small Renault tank was to be carried along." So... That about sums it up. Whether it was an M1917 or an FT-17 is the only real mystery.

And whether they managed to get it further than Iowa.

wuestehu · Lieutenant

Finally the real and only WW1 one man tank!
� one man armored push vehicle