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Post Info TOPIC: A7V Trench Digger


Corporal

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A7V Trench Digger
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In the recently published German Panzers 1914-18 by Steven J. Zaloga illustrated by Brian Delf there is a small photograph of a A7V Schutzengrabenbagger trench digger. Does anyone have more information on this use of the A7V?


 


Did the British have any similar devices?


Andrew



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Brigadier

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Orenston & Koppel of Berlin, and Werserhutte of Bad Oeynhausen developed this ditch digger on a modified A7V chassis. Sixty to eighty of them were built.

I always got the impression the A7V Ditch Diggers were manufactured after the end of WWI as industrial machines - laying sewer lines and the like, rather than for digging war-trenches. I could be wrong though.

---Vil.

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Legend

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Vilkata wrote:


  on a modified A7V chassis. Sixty to eighty of them were built.


Were there that many A7V chassis?

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Legend

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Vilkata wrote:


Orenston & Koppel of Berlin, and Werserhutte of Bad Oeynhausen developed this ditch digger on a modified A7V chassis. Sixty to eighty of them were built. I always got the impression the A7V Ditch Diggers were manufactured after the end of WWI as industrial machines - laying sewer lines and the like, rather than for digging war-trenches. I could be wrong though. ---Vil.



No thats Orenstein und Koppel. Still going strong today. They built most of the German Army's military locos in WW1 and most German trench railways would have one of their narrow gauge locos. Their first mechanical digger was constructed in 1903 but their company history says they didn't produce an excavator on tracks until 1922!


They still build tracked excavators and  drag lines. They also produce small ride on locos for garden railways so that you can buld a trench railway system in your own backyard should you so wish


The French built at least one specialised trench digger of which there is a photo in the Osprey book on WW1 trench fortifications. Britain used tunneling machines on the Western Front but I've seen nothing on trench diggers before WW2 (when there was Churchill's famous Nellie).



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Legend

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Vilkata wrote:


Orenston & Koppel of Berlin, and Werserhutte of Bad Oeynhausen developed this ditch digger on a modified A7V chassis. Sixty to eighty of them were built. I always got the impression the A7V Ditch Diggers were manufactured after the end of WWI as industrial machines - laying sewer lines and the like, rather than for digging war-trenches. I could be wrong though. ---Vil.


 Actually Weserhutte (no first R) also still going strong - a specialist excavation machine company. I enclose a photo of one of their large machines from the 1920s Looks a mite large for an A&V chassis - perhaps its the K wagen version

-- Edited by Centurion at 12:49, 2006-10-24

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Brigadier

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I have no idea if there were sixty to eighty A7V chassis ever even built. My first guess would be a blooming 'No', though. I got those numbers and the text from the little "German Tanks In WWI" by Schneider and Strasheim - the little $8 book, not the huge A7V Bible book.

Is it possible that the A7V chassis was modified and then put into mass production for this Ditch Digger vehicle? As in, perhaps these vehicles weren't A7V or Uberlandwagon chassis that were modified. Perhaps they got the assembly plant for the A7V, retooled their design, and started pumping out tracked vehicles for peacetime use instead of military use.

After all, many towns were pretty well smashed in WWI. Laying new sewer lines, pipelines, etc, would be an arduous task. Perhaps the Germans got some sort of capital investment relating to this, and built up that fleet of A7V ditch diggers as completely new vehicles, perhaps using them in France and Belgium, rebuilding infrastructure?

Just speculation of course.

---Vil.

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Hero

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Hello Gents


 


  During my research of the different A7V variations, I have came across different information concerning the number of A7V Schutzengrabenbagger built, some sources state as Vilkata  pointed out 60 to 80, others 40 to 50, and a few experts in the field of the A7V have deducted that at least 20 were produced. I no of at least two different chassis versions, one:  the prototype was built on a standard Uberlandwagen; two: the remaining vehicles were  built on a shortened chassis, I have at least four photos showing different style driving cabs, some built with wood, others out of steel,or some form of metal. Also I have a photo of one rigged up with a Box Blade in front, like a Bulldozer, used after the war to clean up rubble.


  I also have a drawing by Orenstein und Koppel on a new designed Schutzengrabenbagger, I am unsure if it is based on an A7V chassis, but it looks larger, and much heaver. It is dated 1920.


 


ATB


Tim R



-- Edited by Tim R at 17:52, 2006-10-24

-- Edited by Tim R at 17:54, 2006-10-24

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Legend

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A shortened A7V chassis would take it back to the original Holt?

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Max


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Hi,


 


don't know much about diggers,but got some nice pics.


 


Max



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Hero

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Thanks MAX


  Those are some interesting pixs, I appreciate them.


ATB


Tim R.



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Legend

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You wouldn't want to take it too close to the front though. The French machine of 1916 actually fitted into the trench it was digging so once it got started all that would be visible would be the spoil conveyers on either side. It was very like a mini version of the 1940 Nellie (given that Churchill was commanding a battalion at the front at the time I wonder if it gave him the idea). You would be able to use it under fire.


The British army did use mechanical diggers - for cable laying. I've found a reference to a Lieut. R.S. Dorward formerly of the R.E Unit of Edinburgh University O.T.C commanding one in France. There were enough in service for there to be  a British Army rhyming slang word for them (which I won't repeat here given that it's now regarded as exceptionally offensive).



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Captain

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looks like something that would be fun to scratch build!

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General

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If it could be done: maybe use MGM's Gelandwagen for a platform (Minus cargo box and cab)  I'd need to see photos of industrial trenching pieces from the '20s for comparison to do the back, as for the cab, does it look like the engine cover would be the same size as a 1/72 Daimler Marienfelde? otherwise I've got a radical idea brewing, since Ive got a leftover Vomag body.

Regards, Josh

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