Landships II

Centurion · Legend

Paper Schnieder ?

Roger Todd · Legend

I've been wondering about this for simply years, ever since seeing the specs in Macksey's 'Tank Facts & Feats'. I did post here ages ago asking if anyone knew anything, but drew a blank. If you do find any info, Centurion, I'd be grateful if you could keep me posted. BTW, did that Nellie material reach you?

Centurion · Legend

Got Nellie thanks (I should have said, sorry).

My reference to this vehicle is in The Fighting Tanks since 1916 buried at the back of the French section. It indicates that one was built!
Les vehicules blindes Francais 1900 1944 seems to cover just about every French AFV built anywhere (including the French colonies) doesn't mention it but they don't cover unclompleted designs.

If it wasn't for the 3 turrets the specs are very similar to the K wagen except for 3 extra mgs and 6 extra crew. One wonders if Schnieder were considering building an improved vesion? (with three mg turrets). Only wild speculation of course - not a scintilla of evidence.

Roger Todd · Legend

Centurion wrote:

Got Nellie thanks (I should have said, sorry).

No need for apologies Centurion, it's just that Grotmail can be bobbins sometimes, and on occasion I find that stuff I send either (a) takes a day or two, or (b) doesn't arrive, and doesn't even bother with one of those 'Email failed' notices you're supposed to get!

The one source (Macksey's book) which I've seen mention this project doesn't mention the three turrets, so your info is very interesting. Funny that you should mention the K-Wagen, because pace Macksey's very vague (virtually non-existent, in fact) description, the armament of four 75mm guns always made me imagine something along the lines of the German monster. As you say, maybe the extra crew indicates three MG turrets? Mind you, seeing the dimensions you quote (which, again, I've never seen before) implies quite a narrow machine, lacking the bulky side sponsons of the K-Wagen - perhaps the width of 10ft 9in is just the hull, without sponsons?

I haven't got the books you refer to (I keep meaning to track 'em down but always get distracted), but it's interesting that there's not an awful lot in them about this strange beast. How frustrating...

You might try emailing the chap who runs the Chars Francais site, but I've tried it in the past and never got a response...

http://www.chars-francais.net/plan_du_site_a.htm

Centurion · Legend

The K wagen hull width is (or was) 10 ft 9in - could be a coincidence of course.

Tim R · Hero

Hello Gents

Could this be the Perinelle Dumay tank, we coverd it at the begining of the forum, it matches your description of the paper Schnieder. here is the link to the conversation.

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=63528&p=3&topicID=4015984&topicPage=32

I have also attached a drawing.

Just a guess.

ATB

TIM R

Roger Todd · Legend

Centurion wrote:

The K wagen hull width is (or was) 10 ft 9in - could be a coincidence of course.

Curiouser and curiouser... The French did demonstrate an unhealthy obsession with outdoing the Germans with specific weapons systems - look at their 520mm howitzer, built purely to prove that they could outdo the 420mm Dicke Berta. Or their TLP, built purely to show that they could equal the Paris Gun. So perhaps this machine was their attempt to outdo the K-Wagen (assuming that they knew about the German project, that is).

Tim, good call - I did consider the P-D machine, but it was too different. Far longer and with a different armament fom the Schneider monster. Also, the SteelMasters article states that it never left the drawing board, whereas there appears to be some evidence that this Schneider beast at least got part way under construction.

Centurion · Legend

Given that the Allied Control Mission ordered the destruction of the K wagens one must assume that the French would have had info on the vehicle. Indeed it might be interesting to speculate on just where they were scrapped - like the Schnieder works?

Roger Todd · Legend

Centurion wrote:

Given that the Allied Control Mission ordered the destruction of the K wagens one must assume that the French would have had info on the vehicle.

True, though I wasn't sure if the French started some time before the end of the war - a vague memory of the Macksey book (which is at my parents' home) suggests that they began in 1917, so I wasn't sure if they'd have known about the K-Wagen. But given the similarities on paper, they must have.

Centurion · Legend

The Perinelle Dumay tank thread was before I joined the forum. Thanks for the drawing Tim. I've tidied it up a bit to produce the enclosed. As a US collegue of mine would have said 'thats the sort of tank Elvis would have had'. Who wants a stretched Caddywhen you can get a stretched Schnieder?

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-11/1114252/long.jpg

Craig York · Sergeant

Every time I come here I learn about something new and strange! I was delighted to find the link to the French site again as well. Roger, what is this TMP gun you mention?

Roger Todd · Legend

Craig York wrote:

Roger, what is this TLP gun you mention?

Craig, sorry, I was being lazy! It's the Pi�ce � tr�s longue port�e (T.L.P.), a French effort to outdo the Paris Gun. There's a fab page about it here:

http://html2.free.fr/canons/cantlp.htm