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Post Info TOPIC: Beute Bus


Legend

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Beute Bus
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Attached show a British Double decker in German hands in Brussels. I'm not sure what model - it doesn't look like the London maodel B (the Old Bill Bus) . Any body able to identify? What happened to it I wonder? Was it later repainted and used by the German army?

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Captain

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i can probably identify it for you this evening, (again not at home) i have a link to a repository of images of turn of the century vehicles and i recall that type of bus. i seem to remember reading somewhere about this though.

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Major

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It's a Milnes-Daimler. They were the first British double-deckers to go to war, before the B-Type. Most were captured at Antwerp, and it's reasonable to assume that the Germans made use of them. I'm working on an article about the buses used on the Western Front at the moment. Bear with me.


If that site on early 20thC vehicles is the one I've seen, it's excellent. Fowler traction engines, buses, etc. Brilliant.



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JamesH wrote:



It's a Milnes-Daimler. They were the first British double-deckers to go to war, before the B-Type. Most were captured at Antwerp, and it's reasonable to assume that the Germans made use of them. I'm working on an article about the buses used on the Western Front at the moment. Bear with me.


If that site on early 20thC vehicles is the one I've seen, it's excellent. Fowler traction engines, buses, etc. Brilliant.





 


i think so, it has everything, steam buses, road locomotives, even a rare pick of a pedrail tractor, as well as the hornsby chain tractor.



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Major

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This is that site. A real treasure trove.


http://www.chrishodgephotos.co.uk/pagev/veterantruckphotos.htm



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JamesH wrote:



This is that site. A real treasure trove.


http://www.chrishodgephotos.co.uk/pagev/veterantruckphotos.htm




yep, thats the one, one of those out of the way treasure troves that you find from time to time on the net.

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Corporal

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I hope this doesn't sound pedantic but it's not a Milnes-Daimler.  This is a Daimler CC bus introduced in 1912 and bought in substantial numbers by the Tramways (MET) Omnibus Company from December 1912 onwards.  Milnes-Daimlers were earlier vehicles and were essentially German Daimler chassis bodied in the UK.  They were not used for military purposes in WW1 as far as I know.

In August 1914, the Admiralty impressed 70 MET Daimler CCs and sent them to Antwerp as transport for the Royal Naval Division.  Some were abandoned in varying states of repair during the retreat from Antwerp and were recovered by the Germans.  If you look at the bus in the photograph, you can see the MET lettering on the body side, the name Daimler on the radiator and the fleet number D219 on the bonnet side.  This number was actually allocated by the LGOC who operated the Daimlers on behalf of the MET.

The second bus looks like a casualty as the engine seems to be missing.

Gordon McLaughlin

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Legend

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It fits whats known. Thanks for the info.

PS Getting it right isn't being pedantic at all - keep on posting please whenever you spot anything at all.

-- Edited by Centurion at 23:10, 2007-02-20

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Legend

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Gordon McLaughlin wrote:

I hope this doesn't sound pedantic but it's not a Milnes-Daimler.  This is a Daimler CC bus introduced in 1912


Remember, a pedant is only what someone who doesn't know something calls someone who does. You're right. It is a Daimler. Eight Vanguard Milnes-Daimlers were used in a troop-carrying experiment in 1908, along with some de Dions and Straker-Squires, 27 buses in all. It was Daimlers that were sent to France in the first wave by Churchill in September 1914, and the AEC B-Types followed in October, by which time the Daimlers had mostly been captured.

The French made huge use of buses of many kinds. You might not be surprised to find some familiar names amongst the manufacturers; the Brillé-Schneider, for instance. It seems they had a finger in virtually every pie.


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Looking again at my original post, I see that a correction is needed.  The MET Daimlers were aparently taken over by the Admiralty in early September rather than in August.  By 11th October, 219 MET Daimler CC buses and 22 similar buses of the Gearless company had been requisitioned.  This figure included the original 70 for the Naval Division.  The rest were re-bodied as lorries.  A first batch of 94 LGOC B Type double deckers had also been impressed by this date and a further 6 MET Daimlers were taken over on 31st October or shortly afterwards.  All of these buses were taken later than the 30 described below.

The first London buses taken over for military use in WW1 were 30 LGOC B Types.  These were new buses with only a few months' service and were single deckers of a new pattern with a heavier, stronger chassis and more powerful engine than the standard B Type.  This was to render them suitable for use on hilly routes.  These buses were were withdrawn from service on 1st August, three days before the declaration of war, converted to ambulances and, supposedly, sent to Dover for shipment on the same day.

Gordon McLaughlin

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Legend

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Ooh, Gordon. This is obviously your area of expertise. It's about time Peter K asked you to do an article . . .

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The single deck B-type buses did not serve abroad. 30 were converted into Royal Naval ambulances and used at the naval ports of Portsmouth, Plymouth and Chatham. There are several photos of them in use at the London transport Museum photo-library in Covent Garden.
They were numbered B2679 to B2708. They did not have the fitch-plate chassis of the double-deck B-types but had a pressed steel chassis later also used on Y-type lorries.

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