Landships II

MK1 Nut · Hero

RE: MK1 Tank Plans

Gwyn Evans · Legend

kieffer wrote:

It's a fine drawing this mr. Harley made, are there any other drawings by him reproduced?

Kieffer

Dick had various plans published in Tankette, the MAFVA magazine and Centurion, the MAFVA Scotland magazine, but some years ago.� Tankette is still published but I don't subscribe to it.� Centurion is out of print and is very hard to find now.� I am fortunate in having�quite alot of them...

Gwyn

�

jim-jo · Corporal

Hi Peeps,

Had a great day out at the Bovington tank museum yesterday and was able to get great information and details from the Archives and Libraries dept. I would definitely recommend visiting the archives department if you are serious about tanks, and I was also lucky to be able to get my books signed by David Fletcher.

Hi Helen.

I was able to get most of the measurements your needed plus a few more that might be useful too, however I was not able to get a top view of the MK1 because it has been placed up high in a darkened area and I was not able to get up that high tp look, sorry.

Also I was able to look at the roller system for all the tanks and the grease point is only on the front end, there was no plugs on the other end of the rollers and this included the Little Willie too.

Jim

-- Edited by jim-jo on Wednesday 16th of December 2009 01:09:31 AM

Poniatowski · Major

Here's the relocated hatch on the model... 1st stage, doing the plug for the inaccurate hatch and locating the ring temporarily in order to drill rivet holes into the top plate. Later, the opening will be completed and filed smooth... so an in progress shot.

Notice also I used hex, rather than square bolts.� An obvious mistake, but not one I'm willing to correct on this one (99% of the people, even the 'experts' won't know the difference).� I didn't notice until I'd ordered and started with the bolts, so that's just the way it goes.

Ron

-- Edited by Poniatowski on Wednesday 16th of December 2009 02:00:05 AM

Poniatowski · Major

Oh... also.. I'm not going to add bolts and such to the baffle plates because I'm going to place 'sand bags' near the exhaust ports as they did to help muffle the sound.

Cheers all!

Ron

LincolnTanker · Commander in Chief

Hi Ron,� I like the texture on your plates.� The square heads on the top plates have caused me some thought.� The only�advantage over hex I can think of is a closed spanner would give better grip if the spanner had to be hammered to shift the bolt.� These plates would be removed if the engine/transmission was to be removed.
One thing I've noticed on the Foster Whippet's is the port side panel parallel with the direction of travel sometimes has the rivets replaced with�hex�bolts as per CaesarII (It has a couple of square one's as well) The Aberdeen one is still bolted. I wonder if Caesar had the transmission repaired/replaced?� Sorry if I'm going abit off topic, but all I'm trying to say is there was a war on so sometimes expediancy prevails.

At least one of the track guides, as we discussed earlier, on MarkIV 'Flirt II' has 2 rivets holding it in place.� This may have happened when it was renovated in the '80s.
So preserved Tanks are not always 100% correct.

I'm begining to ramble,
Good night,
Chris.

kieffer · Commander in Chief

Hi Ron,

looks good! Did not know that the T girder(s) are bolted one side and riveted the other side, flange you call that in English? Are they all T formed, it looks like there's a L formed one too on your model. Can you tell me more about that?
The circle around the hatch: the cover seems, on photo's, to be a bit higher than the deck. Is the circle your assumption (if so, a very plausible)?
The plates around the exhaust pipes, were they just bolted at one side, the other side just rests on the deck?
By no means critical questions these are: you gave nice detailed information by your picture, just want to know everything!
Kieffer

MK1 Nut · Hero

Hi Jim

Thank You! Thank You!! Thank You!!!

Mind having done a quick look at the measurements I can see the bearings on the side view I was worried about are indeed to high. So lots of work which means I'm not sure whether to give you a big kiss or bury you under my patio.� smile

It will be good to get some of the points on the plan sorted out at last and remove some of the errors I had a nagging idea existed.

Helen xx

jim-jo · Corporal

Hi Helen.

Glad I can contribute to your project in any way I can and looking forward to seeing the completed plans, kisses accepted mwwaahhh ... lol.� Will be going back to the museum early in the new year so will keep you informed if you need anything from there.

Here are a couple of pics of the MK4 remote controlled tank built by Ian Douglas from the friends of the Lincoln tank group, not sure of the scale but I think it was 1/6 but could be wrong there.

Regards Jim

MK1 Nut · Hero

Poniatowski wrote:

Oh... also.. I'm not going to add bolts and such to the baffle plates because I'm going to place 'sand bags' near the exhaust ports as they did to help muffle the sound.

Cheers all!

Ron

CHEAT! CHEAT!! CHEAT!!! sand bags indeed!!� smile

Hi Ron

The models looking good, sorry about the extra work!

I have a little picture for you.......

Helen

�

Just wanted to add a little thought I had.......

Looking at the hatch again it just came to me that it looks remarkably like the type used on patrol boats of the era ... hence why it has an unnecessarily raised rim.

Living in a Navy City and knowing the Tank design was under the control of Admiralty I'm embarrassed I didn't even think of it before.

Of course I could be wrong and it's off the front of a Steam Traction Engine.

Helen xx

�

-- Edited by MK1 Nut on Thursday 17th of December 2009 12:12:12 AM

LincolnTanker · Commander in Chief

Hi all,

The MarkIV built by Ian Douglas is 1/7th, the scale was used as multiplying 1/35th by 5.

Chris�

MK1 Nut · Hero

jim-jo wrote:

Hi Helen.

Glad I can contribute to your project in any way I can and looking forward to seeing the completed plans, kisses accepted mwwaahhh ... lol.� Will be going back to the museum early in the new year so will keep you informed if you need anything from there.

Here are a couple of pics of the MK4 remote controlled tank built by Ian Douglas from the friends of the Lincoln tank group, not sure of the scale but I think it was 1/6 but could be wrong there.

Regards Jim

Hi Jim

Wow nice piece of work! I would guess it is 1/6 or possibly 1/5 scale.

Any idea about how he made his track? ... I still have hopes along those line and the track is the hardest part to construct.

Helen

MK1 Nut · Hero

LincolnTanker wrote:

Hi all,

The MarkIV built by Ian Douglas is 1/7th, the scale was used as multiplying 1/35th by 5.

Chris

Hi Chris

How did you sneak that post in while I was posting� smile

�

1/7 scale, well its an odd size but if he has track it would be nice to know at least how he made them.

Helen

LincolnTanker · Commander in Chief

Sorry about sneaking in Helen,

The track is made by using 2 lengths of bike type chain with the track plates screwed through the track links, it works, but is not 'fit and forget'. The screws sometimes shear.

keep up the good work.

Poniatowski · Major

Kiefer: Yes, as far as I could tell from my photo references (especially of the inside of the tank), the T girders were riveted on one side. There is no L girder, it's just the camera angle (I had to look at the model to make sure I was still thinking right in my head)...

Helen: Thanks for the photo! I see I may have overemphasized the ring a bit, but considering all of the rust on the top of that tank, maybe not???? Maybe so??? but who's to know in most cases.

I'm going by what David Fletcher wrote about sand bags being used placed around the exhaust as 'silencers' for the Mk's I - III until a real one was introduced on the MkIV. I don't like covering detail, but as muddy as these old things go, I don't think I've a lot of choice, if I want to make it look realistic and 'used'.
There's so much 'stuff' on the roofs of these tanks it's difficult to figure out any standard logic to stowage and imagine there was none for the exterior of the tanks.

BOLTS: Sounds like a logical train of thought to me, regarding the square bolts. The truth is, I started the plates and added the hex bolts to most of it before I noticed square heads on the ones on the back plate. Just figuring out that some places were bolted and others riveted was enough of a challenge going from the references I had at the time.

Cheers all!

Ron

Poniatowski · Major

NICE looking 1/7 scale model! Is that metal? Aluminum? Steel?

Ron

MK1 Nut · Hero

Hi All

Just remembered I had posted some photos on another thread about MK2&3s

There are two pics a friend took for me of the MK2 from above in her new position in the museum, which might help

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?aBID=63528&p=3&topicID=31096355

Helen

jim-jo · Corporal

Hi Helen.

Here is a photo I took of the top of the MK 2 to add to your collection.

Regards Jim

MK1 Nut · Hero

jim-jo wrote:

Hi Helen.

Here is a photo I took of the top of the MK 2 to add to your collection.

Regards Jim

Hi Jim

Looking at that picture, it is interesting to note that the rear exhaust plate still has the cut off corner for the round hatch. There is though no holes in the corners which there are on the MK1, and shows how these Tanks were developing with lots of small tweaks to parts even within the different MKs.

Helen

�

MK1 Nut · Hero

Hi All

Just thought I would scare everyone t death and show you how far my sponsons were out by.�

Still thanks to Jim it will at least be the right shape the next time I show you.� smile

Helen

Nailcreek · Captain

Helen,

Have you given any thought to posting the full plan set, with appropriate cross sections to Landships?? Hint, hint ... :)

LincolnTanker · Commander in Chief

Hi all,

I've noticed plates underneath the portholes that are mounted on the joining strip.
Does anyone no what their use was?

The photo is from David Fletchers, Osprey, MarkI book.

Poniatowski · Major

Helen,

Believe me, I know how you feel! It seems like an endless task to get the drawings right (not to mention live with mistakes on a model!). It's great you have good sources and knowledgeable people helping out!

Lincoln Tanker: All I could think of was that they were having problem with bullet splash under the vision port covers, so those were added. Maybe by the workshops in France?

Ron

LincolnTanker · Commander in Chief

Hi Ron,

Yes, that makes sense. The spash must have been quite a problem with out any guard.

kieffer · Commander in Chief

Hi Lincoln,
the splash option seems plausible, on the International they had triangular strips on the bow as anti splash. Here, it could be some add on armour too.

Kieffer

kieffer · Commander in Chief

Hi all,
on the sponson, above the turret, there is a small quadrangle strip. On Helen's latest drawing to be seen right above the sight slit. Why did they do that fore?

Kieffer

MK1 Nut · Hero

Hi Kieffer

If it's this part in the photo, then it is simply to reinforce a weak internal join at the top of the sponson on a leading edge.

Helen

MK1 Nut · Hero

Nailcreek wrote:

Helen,

Have you given any thought to posting the full plan set, with appropriate cross sections to Landships?? Hint, hint ... :)

Hi Nailcreek

My intention still is to have a basic plan in 1/72 & 1/32 which can be down loaded from this site. As for bigger more detailed plans my intention is with the help of friends to build a large scale working model and donate the Plans to Bovington so they can make some money for their records office.

A suggestion just recently has though got me thinking that maybe a booklet that can be sold anywhere would make them more money.

But that as they say is for later ... I have lots of rivets to move around now the sponson is the right shape.

Helen

�

kieffer · Commander in Chief

Thanks! I completely oversaw this photo...embarrassing..and on black and white pictures I could not figure out, but everything clear now

Poniatowski · Major

T-Girder bolts....

Looks like they had nuts on the inside only (like a carriage bolt)... oh well, I'm not going to scrape all of those off and put rivets in their place. Maybe if I do a MkIV hull some day....

Cheers!

Ron

Nailcreek · Captain

Helen,

Thanks much!� I would really like to try my hand at a large scale Mark I or V.� The lack of good drawings has always been a wonder to me, as there are real examples easily available at Bovy.

I would certainly like to see and buy a set of accurate drawings - particularly with cross sections - similar to what Dick Harley did with "Mother" in Tankette.

Kerry Brunner

kieffer · Commander in Chief

Hi Poniatowski!

Carriage bolts or rivets...they can be misleading can't they. As far as I know, they bolted the roof panels, or at least one I guess, to keep acces for the engine.
Your model looks great, and there must be some room for artistic freedom don't you agree?

Kieffer

MK1 Nut · Hero

Nailcreek wrote:

Helen,

Thanks much!� I would really like to try my hand at a large scale Mark I or V.� The lack of good drawings has always been a wonder to me, as there are real examples easily available at Bovy.

I would certainly like to see and buy a set of accurate drawings - particularly with cross sections - similar to what Dick Harley did with "Mother" in Tankette.

Kerry Brunner

Hi Kerry

I'm afraid my skills are not up to cross sections ... even getting the outsides of this tank is pushing me to my limits.� confuse

The biggest problem with the MK1 is access, ie there isn't any!

You only have to look at the diorama it sits within and you can see why Bovi are less than keen to have members of the public climbing around with tape measures.

Maybe once I have finished my plans of the outside someone else may be inspired to take up the batten and do a complete set of plans.

I am more than happy to be just one small step in a future complete plan of a MK1.

The Christmas and New Year break are over and I am now starting again on my plans.

Helen

�

MK1 Nut · Hero

Hi Gang

Don't get to worked up over the roof as I got it wrong myself, and I had photos to look at.�

The fact is the roof of the MK1 at Bovi was very rotten, and we have no idea how many repairs or alterations it had in its life time ... so its a best guesstimate.

I will correct my top view and get an image on here asap

Helen

Oscar Zulu · Sergeant

Don't think I've chimed in on this thread yet, but have been following with great zeal since I signed up on the forums recently.� I've picked up the new [sic] Airfix Mk I Male and have been watching this thread as well as a few others so that I can get it as close to proper as as I can. Your enthusiasm to get this as right as possible is commendable. If I had to guess I would say your profession requires a skilled attention to detail--hard to say what, exactly, but of this I am sure!

I can't wait for the final product!� Any reason you plan on providing Landships a 1/32 vice 1/35 final product along with a 1/72?

Keep up the inspiring work!

Cheers!

grumpyoldbrit · Private

nice work helen.
thinking of building one myself, normally build boats but fancy a change.
just started doing a bit of research, found this thread, with a bit of help.
is there any chance of sending me youre drawings in AUTOCAD (or Turbo Cad, have that as well,but dont get on with it as Auto Cad, though the two are supposedly compatable, can open one in the other)? full time CAD man.
plan on doing my model at about 1/16th, but in cad scale is not a problem, print or veiw at any scale you like.
errr, at the risk of sounding picky, is there any reason you dimensioned out youre drawings via a table, rather than on the dimension lines?

-- Edited by grumpyoldbrit on Wednesday 13th of January 2010 02:30:31 PM

grumpyoldbrit · Private

just finished reading the thread more closely and found reference to Bovy not willing to allow you to crawl over tank. just a sugestion. take a pack of post its. you know the size. ask nicely and put one near an item you wish to measure. take a photo sqaure on. now you can print the photo, measure the size of the post it in the photo and come up with a scale factor to which you can allpy to anything in the shot. there are also photo management packages out there that will measure any points on a photo, think it might have been Serif the one i have used. used this method myself where i have a known size in a photo, hence the post it.

keep up the good work

colin

kieffer · Commander in Chief

Hi all,

on pictures, or at least the ones I saw till now, I can't figure out how the shield of the gun is connected.
Some show something like an L girder inside, but I don't see screws, bolts or the like on the outside.
It looks smooth, but may be things are covered under paint or dirt.
Can anybody tell me more?

Regards,
Kieffer

MK1 Nut · Hero

Hi everyone

Not got time to post tonight and I will be offline a few nights.

Kieffer just for you....

Helen

kieffer · Commander in Chief

Hi Helen,

1000x thanks for the answer and pictures!

regards,
Kieffer