Landships II

rjbartrop · Sergeant

WW1 Canadian Armoured Autocar

Great War Truck · Brigadier

Yes, no problem at all. I cant get to the photos�for a few days but will post whatever might be helpful.�Tell me exactly what you want and i will�see if i already have them. If i dont i will go and take some more photos for you. I presume that it is the armoured car version that you are interested in?

Tim��

rjbartrop · Sergeant

Yes, defintiely the armoured car version. What I'd be looking for is shots of the chassis, and engine, so ideally if you had the body off the frame at any point, and took pictures then, those would be the best. Specifically, I'm looking for shots of the frame, front and rear axles, Engine and transmission, ideally, as seen from below. From above:shots of the driver's compartment, showing controls, and instrumentation, if any.

Great War Truck · Brigadier

Sorry to take so long to get back with these. I have been out of the country for the Holidays. Anyway, here are a few photos of our Autocar restoration�that might be of interest to you.

Tim (too)

Great War Truck · Brigadier

If there are any specific questions do please let me know, as i will be with the truck in a few weeks time and can take some specific photos for you.

There are not many differences between the armoured and GS version, although access to the engine on the armoured version is a bit of a mystery to me. The non armoured versions have a handle on the side of the cab which if you lean on causes the seat to jump up. The armoured version does not appear to have this and i am curious as to how the engine can be reached. Similarly the floor of the cab lifts up easily on the non armoured versions which you need to do regularly to repack the water pump. The floor is pimpled steel plate.

The controls are three pedals on the floor (in the normal configuration) a hand throttle on top of the steering column and gear lever and hand brake to the right of the driver. These should be the same on the armoured version. There are no guages, dials or anything mounted on the scuttle. The armoured version does have the scuttle inside the armour as it would be superfluous.

The wooden steering wheel is an exact replica of the original using the original metal spokes.

The wheels are the same as the originals, only ours were made for pneumatics, unlike the armoured version which had solids of course.

Tim (too)

rjbartrop · Sergeant

Not a problem, I hope you had a great holiday. The photos are great, they are exactly the sort of references I'm looking for. My wish list of references would include shots of the rear axle and suspension from behind, and of the drive train from below. Shots of how the steering and brakes are hooked up would also be must appreciated. Just out of curiosity, is the transmission part of the rear axle?

You do bring up an interesting point about engine access. Photos of the the armopured Autocar at the Canadian War Museum show a couple of hatches on the rear deck. one of which is behind the driver. Could that be how that got at the engine?

Thanks again for the help.

Richard

Great War Truck · Brigadier

I thought that i had posted these plans of the Autocar, but i must have forgotten to do so. They are from the civilian manual, but the chassis will be the same as the military one. Anyway, i hope they are of interest to someone.

Tim

Les Fowler · Sergeant

Great photos Tim , glad to see your still at it !!
I look forward to seeing more in future.
Les

Great War Truck · Brigadier

Hi Les

I am not sure if you have seen this, but here is some film of our Autocar. The 2 cylinder engine has a very distinctive sound and this is exactly how the armoured version would have sounded .

http://www.hmvftv.com/watch/feedfdeaab192ead4ac0/Autocar-UF21

Tim

Les Fowler · Sergeant

Tim , it seems your video is missing in the link provided ??

Great War Truck · Brigadier

Hmmm. Seems to be ok now. Have another go.

Mike E · Private

Hi Les , are you referring to the article Death at Licourt by Cameron Pulsifer? I too have read it. My great great uncle Was Osmond Begin who was killed on Mar 25 1918 while in the same autocar as Major Battersby. I have a copy of the letter from gunner C. J Archer who was the lone survivor of Battersby's car to Mrs Begin about how he was killed that day at Licourt. It is quite possible that the dead gunner shown in the photo is that of Osmond Begin as he was the first to get hit according to the account. If you have any more info I would certainly be interested. I understand Cameron Pulsifer is now retired from the War Museum so I am unable to contact him.

Les Fowler · Sergeant

Mike , I'm thrilled to hear from you. Yes I was refering to Cameron's article. He is now in the process of writing a book on the Canadian Machine Gun Corps , he would be most apreciative to hear from you . His contact info is ..... cameron.pulsifer@gmail.com
His phone is 613-565-5225.
I just called him , he wants you to contact him.
Also I am in contact with a Tom Tweney who has aquired some of Begin's artifacts such as a signed training manual , medals etc.
My info is ...... lesfowler2001@yahoo.ca
604-936-2488

Les Fowler · Sergeant

A clip from You Tube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8evqTow8C3k

airdave · Major

Hello all...

first off, big thanks to Charlie C and Phil R for their help so far
and directing me to this Forum.

For those who don't know me, I am an artist and Paper Modeler.
I have designed a number of paper Models, mostly aircraft, a PT Boat, some small Cars and a number of WW2 accessories.

I am currently in the planning stages of producing a 1/12 scale kit of the Autocar Armoured Car.

Since I have VERY little knowledge of WW1 vehicles (or anything older than WW2 for that matter)
I am relying on all the reference material I can find.

I need photos, plans, diagrams, etc of the Autocar Chassis and its parts
as well as the construction of the Armoured Car body.

I have collected a number of photos of the Car in the Ottawa War Museum (hopefully Phil R will be sending me some more).
I have also managed to find a few photos of restored Autocar Trucks.

Unfortunately not enough undercarriage and chassis details.
I'd also like to see some shots of the drivetrain and Motor.
I also have no understand of the subframework for the armoured body.

The more I can see, the more accurate I can be with my Model design.
1/12 scale is allowing me to build in a lot of detail, and represent many elements with a little more accuracy than is usually present in smaller scale paper models.

Anyway, I appreciate any help anyone can offer.
Please feel free to contact me directly if you have anything to share.
(you can reach me through my Paper Modeling website www.cutnadfold.info)

�

Even though this is still in the planning stages, I have already started design work of the basic Frame and did a test build recently (to judge scale size, print sizes, etc).

�

Great War Truck · Brigadier

i dont have any photos of our restoration to hand but can get hold of them and scan them for you. it will be a couple of weeks if you can wait.

Tim

airdave · Major

yes, I can wait...this project is in its early planning stages right now anyway.
thanks for anything you can offer Tim!

and a thankyou/shout out to Phil R who has sent me his Museum pics!! much appreciated

Les Fowler · Sergeant

I'll have a look and post some pics or diagrams

Les Fowler · Sergeant

From the booklet "The Armoured Autocar In Canadian Service" written by Cameron Pulsifer , published by Service Publications Ottawa Ont.....

airdave · Major

yes I have that book...but thanks anyway

airdave · Major

Haven't gotten any further with this project yet...
but I will be posting the progress (here) as it happens.
Still waiting and hoping for some more reference material,
and still trying to gather photos of chassis's.

Great War Truck · Brigadier

OK. I have some photos for you. Will scan them for you shortly.

Great War Truck · Brigadier

Right. I have dug out the photos. I have about 800 in all. they are all pre digital age so i have to scan them and will do them in small batches as and when time allows. This lot are of the chassis as we took it apart. You should be able to match up the locations from the plans i scanned previously. Any questions, do let me know. Thanks. Tim

airdave · Major

I have begun saving!
thanks you

please don't get too carried away...I wouldn't expect 800 photos!

a general view from various angles of the chassis and its most important parts would probably suffice.
There are limits to how much detail I can recreate in paper.

But I must admit, some of those closeups will sure come in handy!
awesome

Great War Truck · Brigadier

yes, 800 would be too much for my poor scanner and the bandwidth no doubt. I have scanned the next lot smaller ( i think).

Great War Truck · Brigadier

This Autocar has had a hard life. At some stage the chassis was broken into two and repaired. The chassis rails are made of "armoured hickory", which is basically a steel channel with a hunk of hickory pushed inside. In some photos you can see where the hickory has had to be replaced so it looks just like empty channel.
Tim

airdave · Major

I never would (wood) have imagined the wooden frame rails!
I will actually try to include that in my paper design!

Great War Truck · Brigadier

Great War Truck · Brigadier

here are the last lot i have of the chassis. which bit do you want next?

airdave · Major

thanks for all these pics!
this is amazing.

I'm not sure how much more you intend to post but I'm thinking you might have supplied me with enough
to get started on the frame and suspension.

I'd love to see a few angles of the assembled motor (in and out of the chassis by chance?)

And then I'll be moving on to the decking/floor and cockpit area.
So, I would love to see pics of those.

what is the large box and the back end of the chassis?

Great War Truck · Brigadier

OK. No problem. Give me a while and i will scan the next batch. The box is what the seat sits on. In that picture it is just resting on the back of the chassis prior to moving it to the front. I am fairly sure the Armoured Autocars would have had a different sort of seat box, but i have never seen one. if you do get a photo of the canadian one i would love to see it

airdave · Major

Since Tim has come up with these great Chassis photos (and more to come)
I have been able to go back over my first Chassis design and start making some changes.
I have also added some new parts including the Engine support "sub-frame".

Rather than repost every detail of the design here, I can just direct you to my Design and Build thread
at Papermodelers.com.
The latest post here

�

Since this is not originally my thread, should i continue to hijack? (lol) or should I start a new thread for this project?

�

airdave · Major

with all the Frame Rails in place, I am now tackling many of the attachments.
But first I need to sort out the leaf Springs to attach the front Axle
(and then the Rears to attach the Diff Housing)

My original ideas for a paper leaf Spring assembly didn't work too well
and I had to rethink it.
In the end I built an actual Leaf Spring with individual paper leaves.
It turned out great...and turned out to be quite easy to assemble!

�

In my finished Kit, I will include a "jig" as shown, to help you assemble the Spring and glue into its proper shape and curve.

This was just a test build...and requires only one minor modification.

I've got the attachment brackets designed too, so tonight I should be able put together a full set of front Springs.

Because of this design success, I have also laid out the pattern for the three rear Springs, but I still need to work out position and bracketry.

I have also mocked up a Differential/Axle Housing...so I will test build that tonight aswell.

-- Edited by airdave on Tuesday 8th of November 2011 10:06:57 PM

Great War Truck · Brigadier

Thats excellent. Do by all means carry on posting here. Right, i better warm up the scanner then.

Great War Truck · Brigadier

if you are having trouble with the springs, then these two might help. or they might make it more confusing:

Great War Truck · Brigadier

Here are some engine shots. I hope you can make sense of them:

Great War Truck · Brigadier

Final batch of engine shots:

I am intrigued to see how you get on with the engine.

Tim

LincolnTanker · Commander in Chief

Cricky, that's one big flat twin! does it sound like a 2CV on steroids?

airdave · Major

Diff-Rear Axle figured out.

Full Info here

�

airdave · Major

Thanks Tim!! for these wonderful photos.
Just a great opportunity for all to see how this little vehicle went together.

As you may have noticed, there are many areas of the model that are simplified.
Altered to suit a card model design, rather than being technically accurate.
Theres also a lot of details that will be eliminated because of the difficulties of working
at this scale and in paper.
(An obvious example is cables, small linkages, lines and hoses.)

So, although I appreciate the multiple angles you are providing in the many photos,
I hope you understand why I may ignore some elements. Especially when it comes to
designing a paper Motor.

Having said that, I will admit I am saving every photo you post and I appreciate all
the effort in providing them!

If I may ask...I would love to see the back sides of the wheels...Brake Drums and Hub attachments.

I am going to start working on a Wheel and Tire design very soon.
And that means I need to figure out the mounting and attachments to the front and rear axles.

Right now, I will finish up the Leaf Spring assemblies and attempt to get the Axles mounted
to the Frame...